Emmigration and transfer of dutch company pension fund to england

  • Anthony

    Hullo everyone,

    If anyone can help with the following problem, I am very grateful.

    I wish to transfer the value of my company pension fund to England upon emmigration from Holland.

    I contacted both the Pension Provider and my Employer and they state that I have a right to ‘buy out’ the fund when I leave my employment. However, although in principle a transfer of the pension fund to England is possible, because the Pension Provider has not defined the conditions for such a transfer, no such international transfer has ever been completed. The longest running application for such a transfer is now nine years and there is still no conclusion.

    My thought is to take the fund to england under self-administration via another fund in Holland. One that has defined its conditions for a transfer.

    Can anyone offer any advice please?

    Thank you.

    Anthony

  • teun

    I work for a large multinational company abroad. Although commutation of the pension up to 25% of the element build up abroad was possible through the rules and regulations, the Dutch government, saying that it was a Dutch registered pension fund, stopped it. There is apparently the fear of the Dutch government that you will consume wholly or partially your pension trough frivolous activities. What I feel is (in my case) very strange, is the fact that pension earned whilst being abroad, i.e. not a Dutch tax payer (met der woon vertrokken) can also be held in a for ransom.

    Btw , if you would be able to transfer your hard earned pension monies out of the claws of the Dutch lion, why not the channel island , or even the caiman islands, not to fall on the hand of yet an other group of roaches.

    Cheers

    Teun

  • Paul

    Dear Anthony,

    International transfer of pension rights and the necessary funds is indeed possible. When an employment contract is terminated, the employee has the right to transfer his pension rights to another pension fund or insurance company, provided the employee takes up a new job and the new employer has a pension scheme in which the employee participates.

    However, when it involves an international transfer, such a transfer is only possible after approval of the Dutch tax authorities (Belastingdienst) and the Pension and Insurance Chamber (Pensioen- en Verzekeringskamer). It is the responsibility ofthe Dutch pension provider to get these approvals. Please make sure that, when you move back to the UK, to write to the desired British pension fund/insurance company within two months after starting your participation in the British pension scheme, asking for a transfer. The British pension provider should contact the Dutch pension provider to set things in motion.

    From your posting, I understand that your current Dutch pension fund has not specific rules for an international transfer. That is quite understandable since, besides the afore mentioned approvals, there are no specific rules. A transfer to another Dutch pension fund or insurance company would not be the first advice that comes to mind. Usually, such a transfer will only cost you money and does not change your position for the purposes of an international transfer.

    Whether a transfer of your Dutch pension to the UK is a wise thing to do, cannot be determined at a one glance. Both the quality of your Dutch and British pension scheme have to be compared to make a statement about that.

    As to your suggestion of self administration, the Dutch authorities will not grant approval for such a transaction. They will however, allow a transfer to a company pension fund or an insurance company.

    Should you have further questions, either drop another posting or mail me directly.

    Regards,

    Paul

  • Anthony

    Hello Paul,

    Thank you very much for the information. It helps me much.

    I do have the following questions still and I am hoping that you might be able to offer a further opinion.

    My existing pension provider has a clause such that if I die before pensionable age, then the pension provider will retain for itself all capital from my pension fund without possibility of leaving this money to relatives in a will. Do you know if this is a general condition of all dutch pension providers? I would like to have the option of leaving the fund to my relatives.

    This reason and the declaration of a ‘nine year wait’ for a transfer are the reasons why I would like to excersise the ‘buy out’ clause initially in favour of another dutch insurer. The pension provider is also unhelpful when answering questions and information about the fund is rarely provided. Mistakes have been and continue to be made.

    This transfer would not be to a dutch company pension fund but I imagine to an independant pension provider (insurance company). I would then instigate proceedings in England for an international transfer from the second provider.

    Is it possible to transfer to an independant dutch pension provider without being employed in Holland?

    Whilst waiting for the transfer to become effective, I would like to know that if I die beforehand, then the fund can be left to my relatives rather than the Pension Provider. This is not the case with the existing Pension Provider.

    In England I have an existing pension fund that is regulated by the english government. It is not a company fund but an independant pension provider (clerical and medical). Given that this fund is regulated by the english government, do you know if this fund would satisfy the requirements of the Dutch authorities for transfer of the dutch fund to england.

    Thanking you in anticipation.

    Anthony

  • Anthony

    Hello Paul,

    Thank you very much for the information. It helps me much.

    I do have the following questions still and I am hoping that you might be able to offer a further opinion.

    My existing pension provider has a clause such that if I die before pensionable age, then the pension provider will retain for itself all capital from my pension fund without possibility of leaving this money to relatives in a will. Do you know if this is a general condition of all dutch pension providers? I would like to have the option of leaving the fund to my relatives.

    This reason and the declaration of a ‘nine year wait’ for a transfer are the reasons why I would like to excersise the ‘buy out’ clause initially in favour of another dutch insurer. The pension provider is also unhelpful when answering questions and information about the fund is rarely provided. Mistakes have been and continue to be made.

    This transfer would not be to a dutch company pension fund but I imagine to an independant pension provider (insurance company). I would then instigate proceedings in England for an international transfer from the second provider.

    Is it possible to transfer to an independant dutch pension provider without being employed in Holland?

    Whilst waiting for the transfer to become effective, I would like to know that if I die beforehand, then the fund can be left to my relatives rather than the Pension Provider. This is not the case with the existing Pension Provider.

    In England I have an existing pension fund that is regulated by the english government. It is not a company fund but an independant pension provider (clerical and medical). Given that this fund is regulated by the english government, do you know if this fund would satisfy the requirements of the Dutch authorities for transfer of the dutch fund to england.

    Thanking you in anticipation.

    Anthony

  • Paul

    Dear Anthony,

    The clause you are refering to with respect to letting the accrued funds to relatives in case of your early death is very common for pension funds. Insurance companies take an more favourable point of view there and many allow the funds to be paid out to heirs/relatives. This so called “open end beneficiaryship” is in accordance with Dutch tax and insurance law, provided the employee has either a partner/spouse, and/ or children under the age of 30 yrs. Please note that the funds will not be transferred to the heirs based upon a will, but based upon the policy and its conditions. In that respect, a policy with an insurance company would be better for your heirs. But note that, since the policy will always have to pay out, the premiums most likely will be higher then the ones your current pension fund charges.

    Given your desire to get the pension rights and capital to the UK and the desire for an open end beneficiaryship, a first step could be to start a pension scheme on an individual bases with an insurance company and have the funds transfered from the Dutch pension fund to a Dutch insurance company. the second step would then be the transfer to the UK. this 2 step might involve extra costs as compared to a direct transfer from the Dutch pension fund to the UK. Whether and to what amount is the case in your situation can hardly be checked with the information now available.

    From your description of the UK pension fund, I get the impression a transfer to this fund after your remigration to the UK is indeed possible. Of course, certain requirements will have to be met, but it is not impossible per se. The total procedure takes normally about 2 years to complete. Even that still being a long time, it is better then the 9 years you mentioned earlier.

    Should you have further questions, let me know and I'll look into it.

    Regards,

    Paul

  • Anthony

    Hello Paul,

    As a first attempt, I have spoken with the SNS bank about transferring my company pension. The Bank advises that it knows of two types of policy. The first would be a transfer to another company pension fund. This would be possible because the Dutch Government regulates this option. However, I imagine that I would have to be employed by another Dutch Company and this is not my intention. The second option is a Lijfrente policy but the Dutch law would not permit a transfer between a company pension fund and a Lijfrente policy because the Dutch Government does not regulate a Lijfrente policy. The Bank did not understand the concept of an ‘open end beneficiary ship’ clause. Instead, the Bank described that a company pension fund could offer insurance policies for a wife and children. The Bank did not say if this insurance option would also apply to a ‘Lijfrente’ policy.

    Can you say how this information fits with your description of a ‘2 step’ transfer to England please? I think that my scenario confused the Bank.

    What type of fund would allow me to start a pension scheme on an individual basis? If the Bank is correct, then a ‘Lijfrente’ policy does not seem to be an option because of the policy’s unregulated nature. What description can I give to this scheme that will allow a transfer of funds from the Dutch pension fund to a Dutch insurance company.

    I have a Partner with two children under the age of thirty years. Does a ‘pension scheme on an individual basis’ with an ‘open end beneficiary ship’ clause mean that I should ask the insurance company to include insurance policies for my Partner and Children in the way that the Bank describes?

    Can you suggest where I should begin looking for an insurance company that can implement the ‘2 step’ scenario?

    When you mention that certain requirements will have to be met, can you say either what these requirements are or where I can go to find out please?

    Once again my thanks for your generosity.

    Regards,

    Anthony

  • Paul

    Dear Anthony,

    As a respond to your questions, hereb a brief reaction. Going over all the details in a public platform such as this would take a lot of time and perhaps waste that time, since most comes down to the details (as in most cases). In general, this is how it works. Since some words are hard to translate, I will write them both in English and Dutch, so your advisor and bank know what I mean.

    The ideal set up would be that after your emigration to the UK, a direct transfer from your current pension fund in the Netherlands to the desired UK pension fund would take place. In theory, this is a simple transfer, but, as you described earlier on, in practice that may be different. In essence, from a Dutch point of view only a few steps have to be taken for such a transfer. The first step would be that the Dutch Pension and Insurance Chamber (Pensioen- en Verzekeringskamer) allows the international transfer. Withing the EC, that is rather a formality then a real issue as such. The serious issue from a Dutch point of view will be to get authorisation from the Tax Authorities. In the case as you described it, that will not be a real problem, but it takes time and formalities have to be fullfilled. The Dutch Tax Authorities will impose an assessment on all accrued pension rights in your “Dutch” period once you emigrate. This assessment does not have to be paid though, and does not block any international transfer, provided the UK insurer takes over responsibility for any Dutch tax claims and agrees to excecute the Dutch part of your pension in accordance with Dutch civil and tax legislation (e.g. no lump sum payments on pension date, fullfilling division of pension rights in case of a divorce, et cetera).

    The second option would be the “2 step”. In general, this is only to be recommended, should the Dutch pension fund be unable to handle an international transfer. Please bear in mind that this will trigger a handling fee. Step one would then be a transfer within the Netherlands (no approvals needed besides from your employer and pension fund), step two would be the international transfer as described above.

    Modifying a pension policy into a personal insurance policy such as a “lijfrente” will cause serious tax effects, and is illegal. This is a path that should be avoided at any times. A transfer to a so called C-policy within the Netherlands (which is a pension policy with all tax benefits included) can be done without breaking any rules though.

    As for the beneficiaries on a pension policy, of course the net worth in a policy can be used for a widow/orphan pension. An open end beneficiaryship means that, in the situation you have no partner and/or children, the net worth will be paid out to your heirs in case of your decease. The Dutch term for it is “restbegunstiging”.

    In case you need further assistence, let me know ok? You can always write me directly via email, or post in here. If it gets into too much detail, perhaps a phone call could work miracles.

    Regards,

    Paul

  • george

    Hello Paul,

    I'm facing the same thing as Anthony with the difference that I have already started working in Luxemburg recently.

    I have not yet really investigated deeply what the possibilities or possible problems may be to dealing with the pension.

    Could you explain plain and simple ( it's still a bit complicated for me ) what you would recommend me to do. By the way, I am a Dutch ( amongst others ) national and there is a serious possibility that I will go back there. Feel free to answer in Dutch if you need to.

    Thanks in advance,

    George

  • Paul

    Dear George,

    It is hard to give a conclusive answer, based upon the facts you have given me. Therefore, consider the answer as typed below only as a rough guideline.

    Since Luxemburg and Holland are both within the EC and the Euro zone, the currency risc with your pension is zero. A transfer of pension capital is very well possible, but only if the conditions the Dutch Tax Inspectorate and and the Dutch Pension and Insurance Chamber are met. I don't know the local law well enough to say anything sensible about the local tax consequences.

    An international transfer of pension funds will be treated by the Dutch Tax Inspectorate as a possible lump sum payment to you. Therefore, a “stop border” assessment will be imposed. The Dutch term for it is “conservatoire aanslag”. I can't find a proper word to translate it into English, since it is something typically Dutch. This assessment may sound serious, but in fact is a paper that only sums up the Dutch tax claims on possible taxation on pension payments. It will be nullified after 10 years from emigration, and its sole purpose is to maintain a claim a tax claim in case of unwanted use of pension funds, such as actual lump sum payment et cetera.

    Wheater ot not to transfer funds to Luxemburg is a matter of comparing the pension schemes involved. Be ware that a transfer will always cost some money, and that the quality of the pension schemes is sometimes hard to compare.

    As a quick scan, look at the clause that regards former employees pension rights in the Dutch scheme. Does it say anything about inflation compensation or maybe a wage ncrease compensation? If so, leave the money here. The benefits of any kind of wage/inflation compensation will be nullified when you transfer funds. So it is a free ride, that only makes sense if youthink you can invest the capital into an investment that makes more then inflation and accrued interest at 4%. A rough guideline would be to estimate whether or not you are expecting to make over 7% gain (dividends and stock upraisal) annualy or not.

    Some Dutch pension schemes are formatted into a personal pension policy. There is a wide variety there. It would be foolish to even attempt to advice you there, given the wide range of schemes and policies without having seen the actual scheme.Things such as profit splits (winstdeling) and interest splits (overrente deling) play an important role there. To even go there, I would have to have insight in both the Dutch and Luxemburgian scheme.

    Although not conclusive, I hope the above helps you some.

    Regards,

    Paul